Endurance or Willpower for Shadow/Assassin tanks

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18 posts
By delani at 2012-01-19 16:18:30

Endurance provides more hit points and boosts your self healing powers, which directly boosts your effective hit points (a combination of all of your mitigation abilities), giving your healer more time to react to incoming damage on you.

Willpower provides more overall DPS (on a 5:1 scale for bonus damage, and a 140:1 scale for critical) and thus allows you to better control threat issues, and help with overall group DPS, decreasing the overall time it takes to down the boss, and possibly help with enrage timers.


Which would you prefer to stack, and use, with the mod-able systems in SWTOR? and Why?

By Hyperspacerebel at 2012-01-19 17:14:15
It depends on the encounter, your level of progression, and your group makeup. However as a general rule, tanks should never look to stack dps stats above survival stats. Your group's dps can be turned on and off at will to deal with threat issues. Your survivability cannot.
By asakawa at 2012-01-19 17:45:49
Given how tight the enrage timers get on hard mode content it's, sadly, not as simple as stopping DPS - tank threat really matters. That said, you rarely get to choose between Willpower and Endurance directly since they will both be on your gear but you should be taking the tank option in every case as opposed to the DPS option (the same goes for consumable - stims, adrenals). These typically will have more Endurance, less Willpower and tank stats such as Defence, Absorption, shield chance etc.
By delani at 2012-01-22 21:22:16

On mod-able items, you can trade out about ~200 willpower for ~200 endurance, if you go hunting for mods with more willpower then endurnace, so while the difference isn't much, it is there.

I feel the best way to find out is to show exactly how much 200 endurance would benefit you, compared to 200 willpower.. Anyone up for some math?

By asakawa at 2012-01-23 03:15:19

Well, 2000 health versus some extra threat. Take the health unless you have a strong reason to think that you either need the threat or do not need the survivability.

Worth mentioning that if you were to take a tank piece and swap the mods to DPS mods then you are left with a DPS piece at that point ^_^

By delani at 2012-01-24 17:14:38
So, regardless of how much DPS (or TPS) you may earn from 200 willpower, the 2000 health from 200 endurance is always more valuable? That's the general thought process here? I'm only asking, because the official forums have been preaching the other way around (that the 200 willpower is always better then the 200 endurance)
By ithme at 2012-01-30 04:33:53
As long as you have sufficient health, e.g. you're not dead, you should go with willpower. The usefulness of endurance above the "I'm not dieing" threshold is nil. Where exactly this threshold is-- that depends...
By Dhamp at 2012-01-30 05:15:08

I'd disagree.

The more health you have, the more leeway your healer has.

The more leeway your healer has, the more CC/DPS they can be doing. Or healing other people who take damage.



By ithme at 2012-01-30 05:55:48

Which is why I said: it depends.

As long as you do not die between every heal, that is; your health pool is sufficient to soak the damage while your healer attends his/her other tasks, your fine. No more endurance needed.

The same argument goes for the healers as well; Stack "healing power" until your tank(/party) does not die, then focus on increasing efficiency in other areas.

Whether it is possible to reach this threshold within the limits of current tier gear is another question.



By Kelborn at 2012-01-30 06:16:13

With the increased threat gen from your tank buff, the Willpower you get on tank gear is more than sufficient for holding threat. If you're not holding threat, you're either undergeared compared to your DPS, or you're new at tanking and don't really know what you're doing.

Damage should never be a focus over survivability, no matter what level of gear your at. As said, the easier you are to heal - the easier it is on your healer and the more they can focus on other members / CCing. While no, this isn't WotLK WoW where "Stamina is king", a healthy padding of health just makes things a lot easier on your healer and thus easier for your group.

The only thing that you could, once sufficiently geared, swap out for more Willpower (if for some ungodly reason you need more threat...) is the Mod. Armoring should always be a tank piece, and your Enhancement should always be a tank piece. The Mod could be switched out if you feel you need it, but the instances in which you do will be rare. Also, there will be new Operations of a higher tier (at some point). So you could be comfortable tanking the current ones with slightly less Effective Health, but I'd bet the new Ops will raise the bar on difficulty and you'd want that survivability instead of DPS.

By Dhamp at 2012-01-30 06:59:15

I know where you are coming from ithme, but it's a little flimsy.

Having a more than sufficient health pool isnt a zero-gain as you would suggest - time is a resouce for a healer, so reducing the time they spend on you is never a bad thing. It also takes the edge off the occasional heavy hitting boss ability.

Also, healers don't function like you would suggest - healing output and DPS output use the same stats, and there are no regen stats - they dont have the sam concerns as a tank.

By ithme at 2012-01-30 09:44:32

Fair point. Calling it nil is too harsh. There will always be the possibility of a situation where 1 point of endurance would mean the difference between dead and alive. In my opinion the value of your last point in endurance is only as valuable as its probability of being used. Due to the very binary outcome of any situation considering tank death, endurance hit a very strong diminishing return, but it also requires a very high "tank uptime" (for the lack of a better word...).

I admit to not knowing much of healing in swtor, but wont the healers stat priority (being the same for dps and heals as you suggest) make my point more valid, since it basically removes the healer from the equation? That is; unless we assume a tank with sufficient endurance to not need any healing at all, leaving the healer to dps entirely?

By Dhamp at 2012-01-30 10:25:44

I dont think anyone would say in the situation where you could take a tiny Endurance hit for.a huge Willpower gain, to take the End. In any practical situation though, the only real option where you could realistically choose take Will over End is the Mod slot.

For healers, the stat priority is mostly irrelevant to their role (but will differ in secondary stat weighting, not viability), as Skills determine their efficiency and potential output at DPS.

That said, a healer with more time to DPS (or at least use offensive cooldowns) would probably provide more damage than a hittier-geared tank.



By Dave at 2012-01-31 03:36:00
That said, a healer with more time to DPS (or at least use offensive cooldowns) would probably provide more damage than a hittier-geared tank.

Well said, I have said from the moment I played this game, and leveled as a Healer, that sorcerers are supposed to be doing some damage and not just standing there, healing all the time.

Especially because it's possible to put one talent point in Subversion/Concentration, for a reason to spam Lightning Strike/Disturbance.

On topic: Health over Damage for a tank.

By vortae at 2012-01-31 04:18:10
You should stack endurance before will power. as for ther other stats. I wrote an impromptu guide which can be found here:
http://www.torhead.com/forum/Jedi+Knight+and+Sith+Warrior/topic/869#t5985
By Kartheon at 2012-01-31 20:34:14
Just my 2 cents but I've noticed that depending on what your going against if you stack right, at least with assassin, you can heal yourself for a decent amount. Boss's and whatnot you won't be able to do yourself but keeping your healer open is always a good thing in my book. End all the way as far as I have seen. If you wanna DPS then respec out to madness or whatever.
By gunboat at 2012-01-31 21:13:57

Assuming that tanking works out like it does in other MMOs, you'll want to gear for survivability at first, but as your gear and your healer's gear improves, you're going to want to adjust more towards threat stats. Once you get up to "enough" effective health, more effective health doesn't really make the encounter go quicker. How much EH is "enough", though, is up to your group composition. If you have a steady team for ops or HC FPs, then you can dial in your gear pretty closely. If you mostly do PUGs, then you'll probably want a bit more EH before you start gearing for threat.

I'm also going to suggest you probably aren't there yet (completely SWAG), so get more EH (endurance > willpower, defense > absorb > shield).

By nopunin10did at 2012-02-08 13:03:08

While leveling, however, I have found it more useful to stack willpower over endurance when given the option.

Maintaining threat in a PUG low level group can be nightmarish at times, particularly how mobs are sometimes arranged. The more you can help your healer focus on healing you (and only you), the better off you are; at that level, I've found their heals to be quite adequate to handling my somewhat lower health pool.

It's only when mobs escape threat while my taunts are on cooldown that my healers have had problems. Keeping everyone else alive is what drains them of ammo/heat/energy/force. Not my health pool.

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